Late 16th c. Germany, I need help with pictures of aprons

[frualeydis]

So, I've been looking at these pictures of women from the 1570s-1580s and I've noticed that apart from the normal german style with a white apron with a couple of (probably) embroidered bands There are others with an apron with a large pattern that looks like a damask or brocade, like this.
The question is, is it a brocade or is embroidered. And if so, is it in black on white or is it an applique pattern in colours?
In this picture from Jean Jacques Boissard's costume book from 1581 it seems to be brocade in one case and moire in the other. But since these are coloured woodcuts I'm not sure if the person that did the colouring was well acquantied with the fashions of Lothringen (where the picture is supposed ot be from) or even when the were coloured. So I would love to see a painting of this style.
It sure looks like decorative aprons could be made from brocade though. Not also that the corners of the aprons on the last image stick out on the sides. It's just an unshaped piece of fabric that is fastened to a belt. Very cool in my opinion.
Here's another example, from Verdun.
And here's another german, with a moire apron.

So, has anybody late 16th c. german paintings with decorative aprons in brocade or moire?

Comments

[myralea.livejournal.com]

don't have any images on late german aprons at the moment, can check my books at home later. but wouldn't it be quite hard and somewhat pointless to make a moire-embroidery?
(or at least somewhat boring...)

/m

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

Yes, the moire must be real, but I thought of the first image which could be embroidered.
Everything ponits to brocade, I just need more proof before I start making that dress, because it's so unusual that it will be questioned a lot.

Eva

[pinque.livejournal.com]

I do have an image of a Cologne style dress with an apron made from a purpley fabric that is the same colour as her undersleeves... It's a brocade. The image appears to be from Sotheby's.
Oh my, what a fluke.. it was the first bookmark I clicked;)
http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=43K2S


I read the woodcuts as being brocades if the pattern is less random than the wiggles for watered silk...

In Davenport's book:
"Both aprons and skirts are embroidered or made of brocade or velvat to match the bodice, as well as made of linen."

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

I love you Michaela.
I have this lovely teal moire grosgrain that would make a great doublet and now I just need to find a nice brocade, contrasting of course.

Eva

[pinque.livejournal.com]

No worries:) I was just looking at the image today, your post made me realise what it was she was wearing, my poor brain wasn't quite engaged when I first looked at it;)

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

I'd recommend reading the TH chapter on aprons, its file 1.2.5 Shurz, it might have answers to your questions.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GermanRenCostume/files/Textiler%20Hausrat%20Translations/Women%27s%20Basic%20Clothing/

I do think that the first image is probably just bands of solid fabric on an apron.

For the brocade look, it might be embroidery, Textiler Hausrat says that they did have embroiderd aprons.

I'll keep an eye out for any paintings with this in it for you.

[pandorasbox.livejournal.com]

sweet