clasps

[frualeydis]

I knew that I had seen the kind of large clasps on the dress from Dala Järna somewhere else.
On this dutch portrait she has similar large clasps on her gollar. I thought yesterday that what we see on the dress may be a red (if that colour is the original) with a gollar on top. There could be a faint line at the level where the pleats start to indicate that.
I will get the book today and I'll keep you posted if I find anything in it. Unfortunately it's from 1961 so the photos are probably black and white.

So the question is: have any of you seen a gollar on top of a dress with those front pleats?

Comments

[operafantomet.livejournal.com]

YES! Thank you! I knew I'd seen something similar. And I do have a scan of a Dutch painting similar to the one you posted. And many of those Dtuch ones are sleevesless or short sleeved, indicating a separate garb underneath.

Interesting project!

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

I would _love_ to see your examples.

/Eva

[liadethornegge.livejournal.com]

I think you may be on to something with the gollar idea. It did look a little odd with the pleats starting so abruptly after that line.

Unfortunately I've never seen such a thing before, so I will have to leave that to others to answer, but it seems plausible.

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think I've seen a gollar ontop of a dress with those pleats. All the research books are packed away right now, so I really can't say where though.

However another idea is that they are actually closures on the dress, and not on a gollar. That high neckline and fat pleats were quite common in earlier (1470's) fasions.

[myralea.livejournal.com]

>> However another idea is that they are actually closures on the dress, and not on a gollar. That high neckline and fat pleats were quite common in earlier (1470's) fasions.

agree. i'll see if i can come up with some images later this weekend. to tired now.

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

So the red neckline that's higher than the white should be the smock?

Eva

[pinque.livejournal.com]

Maybe, maybe not, it could be another layer. Earlier German fashions were extremely cool and all about layers.

I just haven't seen a fitted gollar with this style, and not one without a collar.

http://www.museothyssen.org/thyssen/coleccion/ficha767.htm?
OK that's slightly later, but is possibly a clasp. Or it could just be jewels like on the Dorothea Kanningeister portrait. or here:http://myra.hem.nu/costume/images/OSORTERAT/WolfHuber.MargareteHundertpfund.1526(EGPcat55fig3).jpg

There are very interesting lacing "rings" used about this time for some styles. I'm sure Myra has one on her site at least...


http://myra.hem.nu/costume/Documentation/Artist/DiversArtist.htm
I wonder if it's actually supposed to be like one of these gowns:
http://myra.hem.nu/costume/images/UnkownMasters/UKM.PortraitWoman.Swabia15th(EGPcat20fig1).jpg
http://myra.hem.nu/costume/images/UnkownMasters/UKM.WomanOrderOfSwan.1490(EGPcat3).jpg
http://myra.hem.nu/costume/images/UnkownMasters/UKM.BurgherWoman.Swabia1470-1480(EGPcat3fig4).jpg
http://myra.hem.nu/costume/images/UnkownMasters/UKM.PortraitWoman.Swabia1480s(EGPcat20).jpg
SOme of those have what appear to decorative clasps down the front, and one has a neckline at the throat.

http://myra.hem.nu/costume/Documentation/Artist/Schongauer.htm
http://myra.hem.nu/costume/images/Schongauer/MS.PortraitWoman(EGPcat20fig2).jpg

I can't see pleats in may of the gowns, but then the statue isn't in Germany either;) It was possibly created by a German artist though? I know there is a lot of art that looks like it could have been painted in Saxony but appear in churches across Sweden.

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

No, it's locally produced. We have a lot of german statues with this type of dress, but also many of swedish or danish origin.

I have asked teh peron who took the photo for a larger, more detailed photo if he has one.

Eva

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

I think the red neckline and sleeves belong to an underdress. There are fitted underdresses with and without sleeves in the housebook master and master bxm drawings. Myra has a lot of these on her site.