Question about drawers

[frualeydis]

I have a question I hope somebody who reads this can answer. Where do you wear your drawers in the late 1850s, outside or inside your corset? If I wear them inside the corset quite a lot of bulk will be gathered at the waist, _under_ the corset, which I presume will be uncomfortable. If I wear them outside the corset there will be bulk over the hips and belly, which probably won't matter since I'm going to have flounced petticoats there anyway.
For later periods when you wear combinations it's perfectly clear that you wear them under the corset, and they have much less fabric at the waist, but how did they do it in the 1850s?
I need to know this before I cut my drawers since my uncorseted waist measurement, which will have to be used if I wear the drawers under the corset is at least 2 inches bigger than my corseted measurement.

Comments

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

The ones I've seen have quite a lot of fabric gathered into a waistband. I'm still going to try wearing them under the not-even-started corseet I think. And of course they're open crotch. For 16th c. I don't wear drawers since I haven't seen any documentation that has convinced me. But then it would be fairly easy to get the drawers off since the corset doesn't reach very low below your waist. The problem would be to get them on again :)

Eva

[hleleanor.livejournal.com]

"For 16th c. I don't wear drawers since I haven't seen any documentation that has convinced me."

I can provide you with photos of extant period examples. Would that serve?

And actually, you are incorrect. The "effigy corset" that I wear has quite long boned tabs, and in particular a very deep center front point. When the corset, farthingale, petticoat, underskirt, overskirt, and doublet are in place, it is quite impossible to get the drawers off, I assure you! :) Which is not even taking into account one's limited mobility in a full court Elizabethan gown. It makes getting them on again, even more difficult, and probably not even possible. Believe me, I've tried. :)

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

I wear an effigy corset sometimes and I have seen the two italian drawers and the courtesan engraving. Whether they were used by respectable women and outside Italy is definitely up to debate.
I actually managed to get my panties off from under my long straight fronted 1901-corset (but not on again) so I can't see that it would be impossible from under the effigy corset. I guess it depends on how much you constrict your waist, but with a straight busk I always end up with a little extra room were my waist does a dip in in the front and I can get my fingers there to open a drawstring by shifting some of my body fat. Buttoned drawers would be impossible though.

Eva

[hleleanor.livejournal.com]

LOL! I wish I could "shift some of my body fat"! HAH!!! Unfortunately, it seems to be unshiftable, so my corset is pretty tight. If you have that much room beneath your busk, you are good to go! Best of luck. :) LOL! Yep. Buttons could pose a real problem.

Documentation

[hleleanor.livejournal.com]

Here's a photo of two pair of extant drawers, Italain, late 16th century, from "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd", by Janet Arnold. I will track down the page reference for you, as soon as I find my books again. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/hleleanor/WhitelinendrawersItalianlate16cQEWU209.jpg

Re: Documentation

[guyelfkin.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... That example is fairly well known but there's still no proof they were common wear (worn by non-courtesans) or that they wwere worn outside of Italy.

On the other hand - Id' say that anyone getting a close enough look up your skirts to tell whether you're wearing drawers or not is either about to be slapped (possibly arrested!) or has your permission to be there for other reasons

Teddy

Re: Documentation

[hleleanor.livejournal.com]

Actually, the whole point that started this conversation was "under or over the corset", not how common the wearing of drawers were in the 16th c. I expect it was fairly uncommon, as you say. However, the fact that they were not completely unknown is sufficient rationale for me. I wear mine out of convenience and modesty. And believe me, I'd rather wear none, than have someone see me in them. Sexy, they ain't! ;)

Re: Documentation

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

Are you sure about the sexy thing?
You might be surprised. Especially if you add some embroidery.

Eva

[guyelfkin.livejournal.com]

No. I'd have to agree that, embroidered or not, they aren't the least bit sexy.

Teddy