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frualeydisLoose weight.
Suddenly I can wear lots of my old garb. (Of course it means that there is also garb that has become too big, including most of my elizabethan stuff)
I had a friend over who was interested in one of my old loose 15th century surcoats (not wide enough to justify the term houppelande I think). So I had Rickard take down the "15th and some 16th century chest", which I hardly ever touch. Well, I looked in it and tried on most of the clothes. Result:
Cotton damask ca 1500 french/flemish gown with wide-ish sleeves and v-opening in back: fits, but needs kirtle and a band of contrasting fabric around the hem since it's too short. And I could stand to lose another kilo or two. Last (and first) time worn: November 1995
16th century Saxon court gown in dark yellow cotton velvet and light blue cotton damask, of the less common type with gored skirt (can be seen in a few Cranach paintings): Almost fits, see gown above. Needs petticoat and new headwear + new lacing cords. Last (and first) time worn: November 1997
Burgundy 15th century tight-fitting overgown with gored skirt in thin wool, based on french illuminations of dancing peasants: Fits, but needs short-sleeved kirtle. Last time worn: autumn 1999
Red and black german gown from 1525, in wool and velvet: Fits, may have to be taken in a little at the waist. Needs petticoat, gollar and headgear, and better lacing cord. Ideally the bodice should be shortened a little too. Made in 1997, last time worn: Renaissance days in Kalmar 2000. Here's a bad photo, and the inspiration:
As you see I had bad headgear but a gollar. Unfortunately I lost the latter when being very drunk at the aforementioned Renaissance days. Another picture from that event can be seen here, I'm the one wearing a cap. That was however the night after, when I was sober.
Suddenly I can wear lots of my old garb. (Of course it means that there is also garb that has become too big, including most of my elizabethan stuff)
I had a friend over who was interested in one of my old loose 15th century surcoats (not wide enough to justify the term houppelande I think). So I had Rickard take down the "15th and some 16th century chest", which I hardly ever touch. Well, I looked in it and tried on most of the clothes. Result:
Cotton damask ca 1500 french/flemish gown with wide-ish sleeves and v-opening in back: fits, but needs kirtle and a band of contrasting fabric around the hem since it's too short. And I could stand to lose another kilo or two. Last (and first) time worn: November 1995
16th century Saxon court gown in dark yellow cotton velvet and light blue cotton damask, of the less common type with gored skirt (can be seen in a few Cranach paintings): Almost fits, see gown above. Needs petticoat and new headwear + new lacing cords. Last (and first) time worn: November 1997
Burgundy 15th century tight-fitting overgown with gored skirt in thin wool, based on french illuminations of dancing peasants: Fits, but needs short-sleeved kirtle. Last time worn: autumn 1999
Red and black german gown from 1525, in wool and velvet: Fits, may have to be taken in a little at the waist. Needs petticoat, gollar and headgear, and better lacing cord. Ideally the bodice should be shortened a little too. Made in 1997, last time worn: Renaissance days in Kalmar 2000. Here's a bad photo, and the inspiration:
As you see I had bad headgear but a gollar. Unfortunately I lost the latter when being very drunk at the aforementioned Renaissance days. Another picture from that event can be seen here, I'm the one wearing a cap. That was however the night after, when I was sober.
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no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 07:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 08:05 pm (UTC)If there are any pleats it is probably only a few in the back. But I need the big Cranach book, because I know there are better examples.
/Eva
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Date: 2007-09-06 08:15 pm (UTC)I do my "Kampfrau" dresses square and pleated and my Cranach gown is trapezoidal gores and pleated. You can really see the difference in the way the skirt hangs, especially near the hem.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 08:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 08:48 pm (UTC)I don't know if I have it right. But when I was developing the pattern, I spent a lot of time figuring out what skirt cuts made what shapes on a person. Very interesting stuff.
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Date: 2007-09-06 10:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 09:42 pm (UTC)It was fun reading your blog! I'm not so sure that there wasn't an underbodice (unstiffened) worn under the gown in some cases. I've got a little collection of the "mieder" pieces growing. It isn't a kirtle, but just the bodice. It very much helps with gapping because the laced bodice doesn't actually have to take a lot of stress. Engineering wise it makes some sense.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 09:52 pm (UTC)But I've never heard of this pattern books of Waffenrocks! Can you give me the names of those books? I thought the construction of Waffenrocks (particularly the closures) were a mystery as well!
The underbodice idea is intriguing (and of course, possible). I just think that Cranach's typical subject -- small busted young girls -- didn't need that kind of support. So they didn't have it. But it does make engineering sense.
It's amazing how much stress my Netherlandish gown will take. That's what makes me think that if I get the Cranach "engineering" right, so will it.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 10:46 pm (UTC)-- In order to get the pleats of hugeness one designs the inner circle first so that the pleats are of the desired size. (So amount needed per pleat x waist measurement.) After you have determined this circle, you create the outer circle. The fabric usage is less than you might think with railroading like Marie's skirt, but a fully pleated circle skirt takes more fabric than a non pleated one. There's also the period practice of padding the pleats with felt that could help that look, but I don't think I've found a written reference back to the 1530's. If you think about it if you have enough trapezoids you are back to a more or less circular arrangement.
But I've never heard of this pattern books of Waffenrocks! Can you give me the names of those books? I thought the construction of Waffenrocks (particularly the closures) were a mystery as well!
-- They are in the Nidermayr schnittbuch, one in the Leonfelder schnittbuch on Drea's page too. (Enns too, maybe - I'll have to look.) The 17th Praun schnittbuch shows a full circle and calls this the khurassrock (cuirass gown) and states that it is of the style that men used to wear. Waffenrocks when mentioned are specifically for use with armour, but riding gowns (reitrock) seem to be of the same design.
--I haven't done a real thorough evaluation but it seems that there are burger's rocks with circular pieces as well. There are a couple of instances where I can see that the puppies are double breasted, but I don't know if they always did that. There isn't any reason why they couldn't have used hooks and eyes as they are pretty common in Germany during this period. Sometimes you can see ties in the corners of the square neckline leading me to think that they were tied as well.
The underbodice idea is intriguing (and of course, possible). I just think that Cranach's typical subject -- small busted young girls -- didn't need that kind of support. So they didn't have it. But it does make engineering sense.
--I'd agree that the A/B cups of the fashionable body style didn't probably need it. But it provides a great base for pinning the plastron into place. And I'm NOT a small busted young girl, but there are very few pictures of the Cranach style on anyone larger enough to warrant it. But pictures of women nursing who have a bigger bust size are wearing a supportive garment. That makes sense for a 48 year old well endowed woman, who now, however, is old enough to have been rather scandalous wearing clothing of young women looking for rich husbands or ducal mistresses ;D Even in the 12th century there is a quote about the horrors of looking at an older woman wearing the bliaut and braids - thinking that she is young until they get a (perhaps drunken) closer look (oh noes!!!).
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Date: 2007-09-06 10:55 pm (UTC)Funny, I just wrote something last night about how in costuming we so often forget about age-appropriateness in dress. Certainly there are garments *like* the Cranach gowns that obviously have more support in the bust. Holbein's Swiss prostitutes spring immediately to mind.
But I'm an A/B cup and I'm wearing my Cranach as I turn 40! LOL
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Date: 2007-09-07 12:53 am (UTC)The irregular folds and creases in other paintings are a different kettle of fish but I also don't think they represent the chemise and nothing else. If they did there would be more poofing over the lacing because the lacing digs into the flesh and thus the fabric.
Inner support also means less stress on the lacing which creates less pull on the opening which can bring the waistline up.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-07 12:39 am (UTC)Waist about 75cm, actually 71 atm, but I'll go for a little extra because it can be eased tothe back. Then using a spot of math:
C=2r(pi) (Simplified to C=6 X the radius) so for a normal circle skirt I'd wind up with a radius for my waist at about 12cm, that winds up as about 37cm. With a skirt length of about 115cm this is 152 from the centre of the circle to the hem at any point, so with some creative peicing (possibly covered by guarding) uses the same length of material as a regular circle skirt but with far smaller scraps from which to make anything. I still need to do a plotting diagram for 115cm wide because I could then finish off my green velveteen with one frock;)
I'm more concerned with the amount of fabric at the hem than the waist in the case of circle skirts. I have two full circle skirts and the hem is already huge and drapes more than in several of the paintings. In the example shown my full circle skirt hem would be 7.24m if pleated it winds up 9.12m. So luckily it's not that great a difference, well it is but not as much as I worried about;) Differences in height and girth though will make a difference.
I've played about with a number of skirt variations and prefer the look of gores close to a quarter circle in shape (with room for ease or pleating at the waist) for most styles of German dress. I was not going to do this for silly striped dress of doom though. Now with my mad templating skills I probably could have. Ah well. A tube of roll pleats worked a treat.
Thanks for bring this up Kass:) For two reasons: firstly I tend to think in a geometrical manner when it comes to costuming so some things are instinctive for me but not for others and the reverse is also true. Secondly that I have so much more work to do on my skirt tutorials! I was reminded I didn't have a plotting diagram for napped fabrics and now I don't have a plotting diagram for pleated options. And an even more in depth explanation of how the maths really works and how fabric can sometimes mess with that.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-07 12:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 08:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 08:05 pm (UTC)http://www.reconstructinghistory.blogspot.com/
no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 08:09 pm (UTC)/Eva
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Date: 2007-09-06 08:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-07 12:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 08:23 pm (UTC)I whish I hadn't made such crappy garb before, then I might have had a similar experience somtime in the future. Ah well, if I decrease weight and then increase I have something to look forward to. ;)
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Date: 2007-09-06 08:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-07 07:04 am (UTC)/m
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Date: 2007-09-07 12:49 pm (UTC)